@urlnotfound He probably just found the one thing that snapped him out of the cult-like trance that seems to be Libertarianism. In a sense, it broke his rose-colored glasses.
I think about the family members I have who had been almost-far-right, but Donald Trump's election was their breaking point. Almost 8 years laster, and they've almost made it to center with a little bit of left sprinkled in as a garnish, they even voted for Biden and plan to again.
Sometimes, all it takes is what may seem like the tiniest push to cause all of your ideals to crumble.
Back to Penn Jillette, he hasn't elaborated much on his political stance since, but he voted for Yang in the primary and Biden in the general, so I'm thinking he was able to make a complete break, because Libertarian to Democrat is one hell of a move.
Why Penn Jillette is no longer a Libertarian
Lorraine Lyon: So... you want freedom with no responsibility. Son, there's only one person on Earth who gets that deal.
Roy Tillman: Mmm. The president?
Lorraine Lyon: A baby.
[chuckles]
Lorraine Lyon: You're fighting for your right to be a baby.
Roy Tillman: Mmm. The president?
Lorraine Lyon: A baby.
[chuckles]
Lorraine Lyon: You're fighting for your right to be a baby.
Penn was one of the very few self proclaimed libertarians that I felt wasn’t a libertarian because they were an asshole.
The fact he’s drifted away from that makes me feel he’s definitely not an asshole.
The fact he’s drifted away from that makes me feel he’s definitely not an asshole.
The first time I heard of Libertarianism I was at a record store and I asked the clerk what his tattoo was, and this was 1980, you didn't see a lot of people in the mall with tattoos, and this one was something to do with libertarianism.
He gave me the basic explanation of what it was and I thought "well that's stupid". I didn't know what I know now but over the last 40 or so years it has never not sounded stupid.
Anyway, if he decided to drop the label at his age I have to call it progress.
He gave me the basic explanation of what it was and I thought "well that's stupid". I didn't know what I know now but over the last 40 or so years it has never not sounded stupid.
Anyway, if he decided to drop the label at his age I have to call it progress.
also i wish i could send this to my youngest brother but i know he’d shrug it off
@dad Back in the late 80s I had a similar moment with SF geeks and Ayn Rand. I read her books and thought "This is your Ur-text!?" I went on to read Ian Banks and laugh at Libertarians ever since.
Libertarians think it's fine to drive with their brights on 100% of the time. Screw them all.
@owl I mean this by way of analogy and also by way of having witnessed it.
In my early twenties someone I was dating left me to date a libertarian and so I often thought that my hatred of the ideology stemmed from that jilted love. But as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to realize that, no, it’s just bullshit for stupid wankers.
I have some sort of Libertarian in my apartment complex-last election cycle they had a Jo Jorgenson bumper sticker. This election cycle, they have a Kennedy sticker
@urlnotfound @macmanx FWIW I was talking about this interview with someone (I think Jilllette is a talented performer but an asshole; I've seen P&T twice, although not in the last twenty years), and they said that when they saw Penn and Teller in Vegas post-lockdown, masking was enforced. It may simply be that the right's endorsement of antivax/antimasking showed him the downside of radical individualism (which you'd think would have been pretty obvious, but people are dumb) and he allowed himself to learn from it rather than simply changing his previous beliefs to match.
I feel like there's something to be written about how so many of the famous Skeptic/New Atheist people moved hard right over the years.
I feel like there's something to be written about how so many of the famous Skeptic/New Atheist people moved hard right over the years.
@snarkout Quoting Penn Jillette from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... (the real source requires an FB login, yuck)
"[A] lot of the illusions that I held dear, rugged individualism, individual freedoms, are coming back to bite us in the ass." He went on to elaborate, "[I]t seems like getting rid of the gatekeepers gave us Trump as president, and in the same breath, in the same wind, gave us not wearing masks, and maybe gave us a huge unpleasant amount of overt racism."
"[A] lot of the illusions that I held dear, rugged individualism, individual freedoms, are coming back to bite us in the ass." He went on to elaborate, "[I]t seems like getting rid of the gatekeepers gave us Trump as president, and in the same breath, in the same wind, gave us not wearing masks, and maybe gave us a huge unpleasant amount of overt racism."
Yeah I think he's a talented performer and showman but he also grew up big fish in a small pond (by his own admission) and I think confused both of those things with "smart about politics." And you get older and famouser and you find fewer and fewer people to be like "Hey man, your political ideology is bullshit" And yeah, people get older and needier but also I think they usually become aware, at some level, about how interdependent we all are--unless your massively live-in-a-compound hyperrich--and then you have to acknowledge that politics are a lot more complicated than simplistic ideologies and they fall apart at the edges, often when we think about how we should be taking care of one another.
@1f2frfbf Fun fact, Elon Musk says he's "a utopian anarchist of the kind described by Iain M Banks." (I'm not sure he know what Utopian means, but I guess he's a bit like Joiler Veppers.)
@caitlinburke I now feel vindicated that I've said with no evidence "Elon Musk knows anarchism like snake handlers know the bible."
Nota bene: I have known and worked with several Pentecostals. They all "knew" the words of the bible but were utterly lost to any shred of nuance or analogy. They at least made good fried chicken and shared it with me.
Nota bene: I have known and worked with several Pentecostals. They all "knew" the words of the bible but were utterly lost to any shred of nuance or analogy. They at least made good fried chicken and shared it with me.
@1f2frfbf Are you sure it wasn't fried snake? I hear they taste remarkably similar!
Don't blame me, I voted for Teller.
@jer +1
Libertarians only believe in the libertarian philosophy up to the point that it eliminates responsibility and labor for them. Libertarians are happy as clams to take as much as they can from the benefits of a cooperative world. They drive on the roads, enjoy the publicly created internet, and are kept safe by the military with no complaints. They just don't want to lift a single solitary finger for those things to exist. They are much like the grasshopper in fable of the ant and the grasshopper.
The moment being a libertarian means having to provide for themselves, build their own roads, be responsible for their own security, or basically do anything that they feel they are entitled to for free, their entire just ethos breaks down.
The Libertarian party asked Penn to just stand up for his widely-known beliefs and take action. I am curious. Did he magically figure out it is selfish to be Libertarian, or did he realize only that he is old, in multiple high-risk demographics, and realize people wearing masks would help protect him?